StarForum

[Dan Clarke]

I thought this deserved it's own thread.

The was some discussion with regards to Diam corks here.
http://www.winestar.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11934&start=15

Dean Bannister of Oeneo posted a reply which aswered quite a few questions regarding the use of Diam.

Hi All,

I have been watching this forum on all topics for quite a while but have been reluctant to become involved becasue of my position.

I work with Oeneo Closures based in Australia and I am responsible for our sales and marketing in Australia / New Zealand / China/ Japan/ India and the United Kingdom.

We supply Diam and S-Cap (the Oeneo Screwcap brand)

I have noted the various threads about Diam for a while now and just wanted to clarify this thread.

The Diam closure is not seen by us as a short term closure, the article that quotes my collegue in the USA - Eric Mercier, is a little old now and not quite up to date.

Our specification for Diam is quite simple, we say the following, I trust that this is not too technical but I think it is important;

- The specification for TCA in Diam is that each individual closure has below the quantifiable detection limit for TCA, the limit of detection is 0.5ng/l at 12% aclohol. Importantly this is not an average it applies to every Diam in the batch. We cannot say zero becasue we cannot test to zero, this is the limit of testing with GC/MS equipment.

- There is also a specification for Permeability that also applies to every Diam in a batch, the range is very narrow, meaning that wine will have consistent development from bottle to bottle. We offer two verisons with different permeabilty ratings.

- Our specification for Ageing potential is four years, we say this because this is how long our trials have been going for in the UK and for 36 months with the AWRI. By early 2006 we will say 5 years because we have the evidence to support this.


We have seen no issue with the Diam closure breaking down and we are confident of the long term potential.

In summary our specifications are based on facts not hope, when we have 10 year results we will say 10 years etc.

To my knowledge no other closure gives this sort of specification, most people assume that Screwcap will last for ever and it probably will, but it is not in the specifications, again to my knowlegde. This sort of specification certainly does not exist with traditional cork.

The other expalanations posted about the process for TCA removal cover that side pretty well. The cork flour is cleaned with Super critical Co2 then mixed with microsphers, a synthetic polymer which expands under temperature to allow a solid dense closure to be formed - in essence microsphers fills the gaps between the cork granules, it is low in its permeability and is a barrier to gas exchange. The major ingredient is cork.

The production site is in Spain and has a capacity to produce 500 million Diam per annum.

I am more than happy to answer any other questions.

Cheers and happy drinking.

Dean Banister

Any thoughts?

[Notorious Glug]

Good on him. I'm all for extracting wishful marketing from Test reports. It must be extremely frustrating when you are trying to remain transparent to be either misquoted or poorly understood. Shows a real lack of rigorous interest in the topic.

I look forward to his evidential report in 2021

Oh, and Dean, GET STUFFED!
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Where the bejesus did that come from?

[Gary Walsh]

Not had a corked wine closed under Diam (yet) and sounds like maybe the manufacturing process will reduce randox too. I think they sound very promising (as they go pop!). I like em. Will probably be bottling my own renowned cuvee under Diam at this stage.

GW

[Notorious Glug]

Because Dan can't tell if I'm having a go or not I want to clarify that my response is serious, except for the bit about the 2021 report.

Dean
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Where the bejesus did that come from?

[Mark AS]

So you're serious about the "wishful marketing" comment. I'm still confused.

Anyway, GET STUFFED Dean. Good to have you on board.

[Notorious Glug]

[Dan Clarke]

Hi Dean,

There is a comment I have seen which suggests a 'glue' is used and some may suggest this could impart undesirable flavours over time. Your thoughts (Is it a glue?)

And why the 2 versions with different permeabilty ratings?

Is that just to do with the quality of cork, or a secondary process in manufacture maybe?
Or is it suggested that they 'may' be suitable for 2 different varities / wine styles?

[Deanb]

Simm,

We know the closure works, but we have to do trials becasue we are expected too by the market for several reasons;

- The industry expects technical data
- There have been many wonder cures over the years, that have not been all that successful, so we have to prove the product, by independent research.
- We are gaining valuable data on the role of gas exchange in wine development, wine evolves under Screwcap but it develops differently under a slightly more permaeable closure, such as Diam.

This is the next big issue - three closures address the issue of TCA effectively, Plastic, Screwcap and Diam - the difference between these closures is permeabilty and each closure has an important place in the market. - price, customer expectation, wine development, winemaker preference, etc...

I wish I could have the results that cover 10,20 and 50 years, but we wont get them until the time arrives.



Cheers,

Dean

[Deanb]

Dan,

Microspheres are not "glue" - it is inert, no flavour as evidenced by the 36 month AWRI trial and our other trials.

It is a patented product and has all the relevent approvals for use with food grade products etc.

We use a small amount of highly refined binder, very clean and also has all the relevent approvals.

The permeability is controlled by the density of the microspheres and we have two options, which may be suited to different wine styles - an example would be;

NZ Saviungon Blanc may need a less permeable closure than a Barossa Shiraz - this is extreme wine style diference but each wine has a different objective in terms of desired charactors, the different permeability can help this. This option is also available with Screwcap, 2 different liners allowing different rates of gas exchange.

Hope this helps,

Cheers,

Dean

[Dan Clarke]

[Notorious Glug]

[smithy]

Dean

terrific to see you POST. Excuse my previous spelling!

WELCOME!

The trials we have with DIAM are looking really good.

We will probably be using DIAM across the board in all our products next year as we have NEVER seen TCA and NEVER seen a Random-OX.

Cheers

Smithy
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Home of the mega-red

[cellar rat]

[DeeJay]

Thanks Smithy,
good to hear some data from someone who is actually trying the new closure - and with success by the sounds of things.
It is interesting that noone can agree on the best closure in an age where technology solves many more complex problems, perhaps it is because so much of the pleasure and enjoyment of wines is qualitative and not quantitative. Noone can say definitively that one is better than the other as every persons perception is different.
Cheers
Dave
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"Ofcourse it's not bloody corked. I just took the bloody cork out of it" Basil Fawlty

[GrahamB]